James Barclay

[Mantyluoto]

Nothing about bike sheds Jen?

Family give the inital foundation for behaviour then early school life. Teachers have little or no powers to stop a fight and if they do they generally get battered after!!

[Jen]

or have a knife pulled on them

children are raising children so its no wonder that morals are just all wrong these days.

[Parmenion]

behind the bike sheds is a thing of the past that was where you snuck a kiss or sometimes for the bold a copped a feel, or smoked a fag...these days they dont care they do it in front of the teacher and tell him or her to F off if they comment

[Mantyluoto]

*looks innocent* who me!!

agreed, but its the easy way. benefits and housing.

[Selik]

[Lizzy]

To go back to discipline in schools, where did it all change? I ask this because when I went to school, which was a loooong time ago, teachers were not allowed to hit pupils but we had respect for them. Detentions were taken seriously and being expelled taken very seriously.

Now I hear that people wear their ASBO's as medals.....
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Listen to Lizzy, she's always right! as said by Jovial

[DeathJunior]

Society as a whole has grown soft. Parents are too young, too forgiving and because of this children take advantage. A child knows when it's getting a good deal, I mean it, my brother is an utter brat, and when mum tells him off he just has this smug look on his face that says "yeah whatever, I'm gonna get away with it anyway" and he's five, he gets away lightly with so much stuff it's surprising, kicks everyone in the house, hits, and from a brothers perspective I can see it's because the parents are too soft, there's also the thing that they get more annoyed with a crying child so they just let it get away with it so there isn't any hassle. Which is wrong as well. A child should be told off and not forgiven until they finish crying by themselves without cajoling from the parent. It just doesn't work, but it's the same with the criminal justice system, we're too soft on criminals, which could also relate to the ASBO thing. But that could be a different debate. Anyway as I said, Todays society is way too soft.
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[Selik]

Don't get me started on the justice system!!

I agree on the crying point especially, there. It often happens when parents with small kids are out, the kids will kick up a fuss and start howling for what they want, so the parents give the kid what it wants cos they're embarrassed by the attention the kid is causing.
It seems that some people feel then that their reactions are being watched by everyone.

Also on the society note, it seems to have been a slow decline in schools, from the harsh, to non harsh with respect, to no respect whatsoever.
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"I sit on my arse, not my head." - Baron Gresse.

[Grace]

Wow, controversy! Good thread.

I was smacked when I was younger (though not in recent years, I'm bigger than both of my parents now ) and it isn't that that has made me so terrified of my mother (and I'm still scared of her). I was always more scared of her verbal retaliation (sp?) because my parents were incredibly strict. The rules of the house were upheld with an iron will and a horribly incisive tongue. Smacking was only one discipline method and didn't bother me, because it did hurt but it wasn't like they were breaking my legs or something. That would be abuse, which i agree is utterly unforgivable. There is a difference. It was the verbal rebukes, not the physical ones, that really made me toe the line.

I think that the issues of bad parenting and smacking are separate. Parents who smack their kids are not necessarily bad parents. The problem is that many parents don't discipline their children, or worse don't care that they're out of order. Smacking should be used in addition to, not instead of, other methods of discipline.

I have grown up to be very moral, and find that, despite most of them being older than me, i feel older and more responsible than most of the yobs who go out drinking and causing trouble. I'm turning into one of those sour old women before my time I'm sure.

I think teachers should have the power to give unruly kids a whack with a ruler if they wont respond to warnings. (bear in mind I'm still at school, so this would put me in line for it as well.) Classes are often disrupted, the History lesson I've just left being a perfect example. Half of the class were late and then messed about. The teacher cannot do anything about it.
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Taking off is optional, landing is mandatory.

[Selik]

[Parmenion]

my primary school was a roman chatholic school, run by NUNS...these were little ladies in habits...but boy did they get respect they ruled that school with an metal edged ruler...you did not mess with them...they literaly put the fear of god in you!!

[Selik]

Ahhh, Religious schools. Fortunately the one I went to didn't have nuns, and they didn't put the fear of god into you, they just stood there preaching and handing out punishment to people who didn't believe.

I once got made an example of in front of the whole school in assembly, because my hands weren't put together properly for praying.... I was 4!!!
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"I sit on my arse, not my head." - Baron Gresse.

[Parmenion]

4 and not praying right they should have smacked your legs youg lady!!

[Lizzy]

I find it terribly sad that the potential parents of the future here, think it is ok to use smacking as a form of discipline.

Hopefully the links below may give you pause for thought.

http://www.childrenareunbeatable.org.uk/pages/advice.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/252607.stm

As an analogy I want to tell you about training puppies.

Scenario 1: The puppy that jumps up all the time. You turn and walk away, you ignore it. When the puppy stops jumping up and sits you praise the puppy and give it the attention it craves. In a very short space of time puppy will learn that if he sits quietly he gets all the praise and attention he wants. If he jumps up and demands attention he gets ignored. So the desired behaviour is positively reinforced and the puppy gets happy hormones released when he does the right thing. Research has shown this type of learning is quicker and longer lasting resulting in further training being easier.

Scenario 2: The puppy jumps up and gets a tap on the nose and told no. Puppy is confused and jumps up again, gets further more forceful taps on the nose and shouted at. One of two things can happen. Puppy continues to jump up because jumping up gets a response from the person and therefore attention which the puppy wants. Or the puppy gets scared and fear responses are evoked. The puppy stops jumping up but has negative hormones released, relatiing to fear and stress, cortisol levels rise. The puppy may learn not to jump up but it is learnt through fear. Further learning is harder and also in extreme cases with certain temperaments fear aggression develops.

It's not so different really...
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Listen to Lizzy, she's always right! as said by Jovial

[Mantyluoto]

when i look at the yobs on the streets and i think that they all deserve a good hiding. does that make me a bad person or does it make me a victim for societies lack of respect.

when i was 15 or 16 i wouldn't dare hand about on the streets, i certainly wouldn't speak to people the way the teenagers do today. i'd have gotten a right bollocking if i had.

maybe discipline of some come, National service or the like is the way to go.