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Shout for the Dead - **SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD**
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squiz



Joined: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 12
Location: Felixstowe

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Max Power wrote:
Hi Squiz. I agree with Lizzy that there's definitely scope for more. James revisited Raven territory with a short story recently set in Calaius (Demon's Touch), so there's always the possibility of short stories if not another full novel.


really ? Another raven short story, that one slipped through the net, couldnt see anything on amazon about it either, where can i get it ?
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Max Power



Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 467
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you type "Army of the Fantastic" into Amazon it should bring up a book of short stories, one of which is James'. Some of the others aren't bad, but I think James' is the best in the book. It's not expensive, and worth a punt.
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Lizzy



Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 674
Location: the wilds of the West

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not actually Raven Squiz, it's a short story about Auum and the Tai.

Tis very good Very Happy
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Lionhart



Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 4
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:07 am    Post subject: What an ending... but am i imagining things Reply with quote

Hi Guys Smile

WOW Barclay.. you took my heart and kicked it, mushed it, minced it then gave it back... You killed them all!! Dina, Pavel but WHY WHY WHY did you kill Mirron!!! WHY!!!! (I'm not going to lie - hating on you a little bit right now... ) I know i should of expected it but i clung to hope..

Thank you for killing Felice... and THANKYOU!!!! for not killing Paul... you would have destroyed me...

But i loved it!! well done James, well done - i salute you!

One question: maybe i am a weirdo and imagining things but did paul and mirron feel for each other the way lovers do? did anyone else get that vibe? tell me now if i'm on a weird tangent..
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Max Power



Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 467
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Lionhart, welcome to the forum!

I agree that Paul and Mirron had the deepest relationship in the book, and I think they would have done anything for each other, but not sure about your lovers' analogy. I think there are parallels between Hirad and Ilkar's relationship in the Raven series in terms of depth and complexity, but I didn't get the intimate feel you allude to.
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Lionhart



Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 4
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Max Power Smile Thanks for the welcome Smile

I agree they did have the deepest relationship in the book..

My thoughts were that they were both so involved in there responsibilities that they knew there was no time for love...

but maybe i was just being hopeful! Wink
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Alia



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I may risk sounding a bit scholarly - for me the love between Mirron and Paul was not eros, the love that two lovers share, but rather agape - the deepest love between two friends who would gladly die to save the other. And also a bit of parent-child relationship, especially in the first novel, where Paul becomes a kind of surrogate father to the Ascendents, and especially Mirron.
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TheJovialGnome



Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 295
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scholarly or not I think you've summed up the situation very nicely indeed! Laughing
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Lizzy



Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 674
Location: the wilds of the West

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Lionhart and welcome Very Happy

The way I read the books I saw Jhered and Mirron's relationship as much more father/daughter.

At the end of CotN, when Mirron rescues Paul, he gets a bit confused underwater, but it's only a moment. For the rest of the time it's totally a father/daughter type of love.
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Lionhart



Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 4
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definite agape.. i saw that completely.. there were just some words and looks that got me guessing..

thanks for your thoughts guys Smile
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James
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Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 479
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome Lionhart.

Mirron and Paul Jhered's relationship was written a little ambiguously in COTN and deliberately so. Actually, I wasn't sure exactly which way it would go myself to begin with. Indeed in the early drafting, there was no relationship at all.

Lizzy sums it up well. As usual. Jhered is the father Mirron never had and can never know. Mirron is the daughter Jhered didn't think he ever wanted. It makes their relationship very complex and I considered that there might well be fleeting attraction between them but that they had deeper drivers for their emotions than lust.

For me it was the most satisfying relationship in the series because much of it was unspoken yet it was critical to the emotional force of SFTD in particular.

Mirron died to save her son, it is as simple as that. The ultimate sacrifice made without pause or doubt. And it gave her revenge on Gorian too before she died.
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GentlemanLoser



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suffered another bleary eyed day at work today, stayed up far too late last night to finish Shout. Smile

Quote:
Favourite part is defintely Iliev calmy informing a group opf Dead that he'll be requiring his papers!!


Oh definitely my favorite speach/scene as well! Very Happy

Gorians use of Kessian and the Gor-Karkulas surprised me though! Wink I was sure he'd use thier Wells to fuel his works, like the other Ascendants joining together. Not that he'd actually form Works and place them in thier Energy Maps.

(Although I origianlly thought that would be his downfall. Kessian secretly learning from Gorians Works, then at the worst possible moment disovling the Work he was fueling. Wink )
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Lizzy



Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 674
Location: the wilds of the West

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome GentlemanLoser Smile

I get bleary eyed days from late night reading too!
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